James Mangold has no idea if Bob Dylan will ever see his movie

• James Mangold spoke to Business Insider about his Bob Dylan biopic “A Complete Unknown.”
• Mangold explained why Timothée Chalamet spoke in Dylan’s voice on set even when he wasn’t filming.
• “A Complete Unknown” is in theaters now.

Writer-director James Mangold remembers exactly where he was and what he was doing five years ago when he decided to make a Bob Dylan biopic.

He was in Canada for the world premiere of his 2019 movie “Ford v Ferrari” at the Toronto International Film Festival. In the midst of final prep for the screening in his hotel room, he paused to have a meeting with Timothée Chalamet, then a young actor on the cusp of superstardom.

It didn’t take long for Mangold to realize he’d found his Dylan, and by the time Chalamet left the room, the two agreed to make a movie on the life and times of one of the most beloved singer-songwriters in American music.

Things might not have gotten off the ground as quickly as they’d hoped — COVID, Chalamet went and made the first “Dune” movie, Mangold made “Indian Jones and the Dial of Destiny” — but throughout those five years, the two continued to stay in contact and made separate pilgrimages to see Dylan.

Finally, “A Complete Unknown,” which depicts Dylan’s rise to fame alongside Joan Baez (Monica Barbaro) and his controversial switch from acoustic guitar to electric in the mid-1960s, will see the light of day (it hits theaters Christmas Day).

Mangold is one of the few directors working today who has the skill and studio maneuvering know-how to pull off a Bob Dylan biopic. Already having found success doing a Johnny Cash biopic in 2005 with “Walk the Line,” which earned Joaquin Phoenix as Cash a best actor Oscar nomination and Reese Witherspoon as June Carter an Oscar win, Disney’s Searchlight Pictures arm knew the project was in capable hands.

“A Complete Unknown” is not a carbon copy of “Walk the Line.” For “Line,” Mangold delved deep into the Cash/Carter dynamic, with “Unknown,” which he co-wrote with Jay Cocks (“Gangs of New York”), the filmmaker examines the myth-building of Dylan and how his talents elevated folk music in the 1960s beyond what musicians in the genre like Woody Guthrie (Scoot McNairy) and Pete Seeger (Edward Norton) ever dreamed.

But just as Mangold used “Walk the Line” as a showcase for Phoenix’s talents, he’s done the same with Chalamet for “A Complete Unknown.” From talking in the unique Dylan voice, doing his own singing, and even growing out his fingernails (more on that later), Chalamet immersed himself in the auro of Dylan, resulting in the best performance so far of his career.

Business Insider chatted with Mangold over Zoom about Chalamet’s dedication to the role, whether the disappointing box office for “Dial of Destiny” has made him hesitant about developing his upcoming “Star Wars” movie, and whether he thinks Dylan will ever watch “A Complete Unknown.”

You’ve now had sit-downs with Johnny Cash and Bob Dylan while making their biopics. Have you developed a go-to icebreaker for when you first meet legends?

No. I don’t have one. But the good thing is the script is the icebreaker. They’ve invited me into their homes or their spaces because they’ve read a script I’ve written. So we have something to talk about. I mean, when I met with Bob the ice breaker was charmingly him waxing poetic about loving my old movie “Copland.” So that in itself was trippy and flattering. 

Do you think Dylan will ever watch “A Complete Unknown”?

I have no idea.

What’s your gut telling you?

I honestly have no idea. The reality is I spent a lot of good time with him and I felt like I got a good feeling for him. He does things when he’s ready, he gets involved with things when he’s ready, he makes comments when he’s ready. I sympathize with his quandary. Do I ever want to watch a movie where some dude is playing me and acting out significant moments in my life? Is that going to be nothing but pleasant or is it going to be weird as hell? So the fact that he took the time to read my script, give me notes, give me advice, chip in ideas, show me where he would make lifts in some songs, and give me the benefit of his wisdom and his insight about that period so I might even dig deeper into those scenes, that was a huge gift and all the generosity I could ever expect from him. 

Watching D.A. Pennebaker’s Bob Dylan documentary, “Dont Look Back,” confirmed something that’s in your movie: Dylan had some gnarly fingernails.

Yeah. 

Did Timmy grow those out or were fake nails put on him?

Yeah, he was growing them. If you look earlier in the movie, there are some scenes where they aren’t as long. By the end, he had some full-on Nosferatu going on. 

A lot has been written about Timmy being Method during filming, specifically speaking in the Dylan voice when you weren’t shooting. I would imagine a lot of that has to do with him just not wanting to lose the voice, right?

Timmy’s not the only person whose ever done that, that’s true for most of the actors in my movies doing dialects, they don’t just do it and fall out of it the second the scene ends because —

There’s a fear of losing the voice.

Well, you’re also trying to make it more and more internalized. You’re trying to make it something you don’t have to think about. So, if you’re turning it on and off, you’re kind of making yourself hyper-aware of it. If you’re just deciding to live in it, that’s a whole other deal. 

Boyd Holbrook plays Johnny Cash in the movie. Was there ever a thought to call Joaquin Phoenix to see if he would do the Johnny Cash scenes?

The thought occurred to me, but then I realized he’d be 20-30 years too old to be playing the part. 

But you know movie magic, James, the hair and makeup department would have helped him look younger. 

Okay, but then what am I servicing? This kind of meta-movie universe stuff that has plagued us enough? I’m a big fan of making a movie and giving the public the movie. Don’t try to suture the movie to another movie, just own it. Otherwise movies just become this hyper-expensive television series in which we never stop making new episodes every couple of years. 

And speaking of episodic films, you’re currently developing a “Star Wars” movie. Are you less confident working on that seeing what happened with the reception for “Dial of Destiny”?

Well, “Dial of Destiny” has an 87% audience score on Rotten Tomatoes. I mean, yes, they would have hoped it made more money, but I actually don’t have a lot of shame about a movie that’s liked by 87% of its fans. The issue with “Star Wars” isn’t my worrying about if there’s an angry or resentful group that is somehow disappointed in what I did in “Dial of Destiny,” honestly, that’s their prerogative, that’s part of what makes movies great is you can think they’re awesome or you can think they’re terrible. I can’t please everyone and I’m sorry they don’t like it. We do our best, if I could please 100% of everyone all the time, I would, but that’s a tough thing. But in relation to “Star Wars,” the bottom line is I don’t even know if that’s the next movie for me. That’s something that Beau Willimon and I are working on writing and all the other tripwires and judgements along the way. I don’t want to make it unless it’s excellent.

This interview has been edited and condensed for length and clarity.